The Trip Walton Show

The Trip Walton Show | Inside the Circuit Clerk’s Office: What It Is, Why It Matters, and Why Leadership at the Top Shapes Everything

• Trip Walton, "The Fighter" • Season 3 • Episode 3

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In this episode of The Trip Walton Show, host Betty Burns sits down with Mary Roberson, Lee County Circuit Clerk, for a clear and engaging conversation about what the Circuit Clerk’s Office does, why it matters, and how strong leadership defines the culture of public service.

Mary breaks down the real responsibilities of the clerk’s office in simple, practical terms. From handling civil and criminal filings to processing passports, managing jury duty, supporting judges and attorneys, and helping citizens navigate the court system, she gives listeners an inside look at an office most people interact with only during major life events.

We also talk through the misconceptions people often have about the courts, what citizens should expect when their case enters the system, how the office balances professionalism and compassion, and how modernization and technology have changed the way the public engages with the courts.

A central theme of this episode is leadership and organizational health. Mary and Betty talk honestly about the principle that if the top isn’t healthy, nothing is. Culture flows from leadership, and the way a leader sets expectations, communicates, and supports their team directly impacts the experience citizens have when they walk into a public office.

Whether you’re a resident curious about how the court system works, someone who has interacted with the courts, or a listener interested in leadership and community service, this episode offers a thoughtful, behind the scenes look at one of Lee County’s most important offices.

To Learn more about Lee County Alabama's court systems, Passports, Filings, Evidence retention and more - check out their website at https://lee.alacourt.gov/


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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome back to another episode of the Trip Waltland Show. I'm your host, Betty Burns, and today we have a fantastic guest, my friend Mary Roberson, who is the Lee County Circuit Clerk here in Lee County, Alabama. And today she's going to kind of go through all the things that she does. So, Mary, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. Um, like Betty said, my name is Mary Robertson. I grew up not too far from here in Roanoke, Alabama. I was the youngest of four and I was a preacher's kid. So take that for whatever it is that we all know about preacher's kids. And I'm not gonna lie, it was a lot of it was true for me, uh being a wild kid, but um large family, lots of fun. And when I got older, I went to Auburn University. Actually, I started at Southern Union and it was wonderful. I had the best experience at Southern Union, transferred to Auburn, got my four-year degree, and then went to law school and at Cumberland and uh Stanford University in Birmingham, and then came back to Auburn to practice law. And I have a husband, Joseph. We've been married for so 22 years, almost 23 years, and we have two daughters, Holly and Lindley. And uh, Holly is 20, and Lindley just turned 18 this past Saturday. So we're about to be empty nesters and figuring all that out. Joe is a um, he's a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force. He does combat communications, he's a commander of a squadron in Montgomery. So it's been interesting being a military wife and and having this incredible office and try to juggle all the things. There's just never a dull moment. So I appreciate you letting me come today and talk about my life in my office. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I am also the youngest of four. That's why I like you so much. So much in common. You told us a little bit about yourself. And so, how did you come into this position? Like, is it elected? Are you an elected official? Were you appointed? Like, how does this like how does this work?

SPEAKER_01:

That is a great question. And it, I do have a unique story. I had practiced law in private practice for five years at Hague, Cleveland, and Pierce in Auburn. And then I was a prosecutor for five years at the district attorney's office here in Lee County. So I was about 10 years into practice, and I was very focused on just what I was supposed to be doing in my career at that time. So I had not been looking for any other positions or offices, but it's a great example of the importance of doing what you are doing at that time the best that you can, because I had no idea that people were watching me, you know, that people were paying attention to the bodies in the courtroom and the way people, you know, held themselves out or how they decided to uh have their their morals and their character and things like that. And people are, they're always watching. And so Corinne Hurst was our clerk for a very long time. She was an incredible woman. She ran a wonderful office, she had a law degree, and she had some medical problems. And so she had to retire one year into the term that she was in at the time. She had just been elected the year prior. It is an elected office, it is a six-year term office. So since she retired one year into her term, that was an appointed position to fill the remainder of her term. And so I put in for that appointment. I prayed about it. I'd honestly never been looking for a public office. It had not been on my radar at all. But uh, we just prayed about it a lot. And I was like, you know, I'll just put in for it and see. And the circuit judge has by law the authority to appoint a circuit clerk in that clerk's absence. But our circuit judge at the time, the presiding circuit judge, was Jake Walker, and he wanted the other judges to have some input, which I think was very wise of him. So the judges combined um had lots of candidates, and they picked me to fill to be the appointed one and to fill the remainder of our term. So I took office in July of 2013, and then I was able to serve the remainder of that term, and then I ran for office in 2018, and then I was uh unopposed for that election, and then I just ran again last year and was unopposed as well. So extremely blessed. It is just one of those wonderful growth moments for me. I don't like change. I would even stay in something bad just because it's familiar, then go to something good because I that's just I like my schedule. So God always kept me moving because he didn't ever want me to get comfortable. So right when I got comfortable doing private practice, he switched me to prosecuting, which is funny because a lot of people think that once you have a law degree, that you can do anything with it. Criminal law and civil law are totally different jobs. And so when I switched from civil practice to prosecuting, I had to learn an entirely new job. And so that was a wonderful thing. Right when I was hitting my stride for that is when this came along. So it's it's been wonderful being able to just go wherever I'm supposed to go and see how that turns out. It's been absolutely fabulous. I could not imagine my life, my career being anywhere else than where it is. And I'm so blessed to have a job that I do not deserve. It is absolutely wonderful. And I'm excited that we're gonna dig into it because it's a lot. It is a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I I was when I was doing um, I think I talked to you about this earlier when I was doing the research to get, you know, for you to come in. I was like, wow, this is the circuit clerk's office is doing a ton of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm glad that I didn't know fully what I was getting myself into because you know, like I knew what the clerk's office did for me. I knew who to go to when I needed a subpoena for trial or when I needed to file something. I had no idea what the statutory, like the legal constitution, statutes, the functions were for this office. Had I known, I would have hesitated. Not because I don't think I could have done it, but it's just it's overwhelming. So when I was making that transition, Corinne just had to remind me, she's like, you can do this, Mary, you can do this because it I had no idea as a whole what the clerk's office is responsible for. And it is, it's important for our community to know what that office does because you know, the community, you're the people that put us in these offices. And so um it's it's fascinating to me. It may put people to sleep. I don't know, but I love it, but it is it's a whole lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it seemed it seemed like a lot. So we're gonna dive kind of right into that. So what is the circuit clerk's office in like the simplest terms? Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So I guess if I'm gonna try to make it as easy to communicate uh what we do on a basic level, it would basically be the engine of the court system. So if on a money standpoint, we would be considered the CFO of the court system because we take in every single dime, and that has to be reconciled every day to the penny. Uh, it is not our money, like it's not the clerk's office's money. It belongs, every single dime we take in belongs to someone or some other agency. And so we balance to the penny every day. And depending on the docket size, it could be$30,000, it could be$3.2 million. Like it just depends on what we've got going on that day as to what types of finances that we're dealing with. Also, the clerk serves as what's called a fiduciary for a lot of accounts. Like if you have a 16-year-old involved in a car accident, well, you can't give a 16-year-old$200,000. So the judge would order that the clerk hold funds in fiduciary for that person until I'm either ordered to turn them over to that person or until that person reaches the age of majority, and then I release those funds. So, aside from just the money we take in every day on civil and criminal cases, uh, I probably have several million dollars that are in different bank accounts as fiduciary for parties in a case.

SPEAKER_00:

Really?

SPEAKER_01:

So the money is a lot. When I took office Korean, I think her health problems for the years leading up to this, she really wasn't able to deal with what we call unclaimed funds. But in our county, since we have such a large like university, let's take a college kid as an example that gets broken into over the holidays. So they're considered a victim in a crime. So they're the defendant would be ordered to pay restitution. Well, that the victim ends up graduating, moving on. They forget, oh, I've got this court case over here that I didn't change my address to. So we had several million dollars in unclaimed funds, monies where they're just sitting there because we could not find the recipient. The law does provide that we can turn those. If we've made an effort, like if I send the check out to the address that I have and it comes back after so long, I can turn that money over to the county for unclaimed funds. But at the time, I was like, you know, if it's over a certain amount, I would like to at least try to make an effort to find these people. Because while I'm fine handing it over to our county who would make wonderful use of it and be very responsible with it, it's very, it's designated. They can only use it for certain things. But at the same time, I wanted to have an effort made to reach these people. So it's like a little way to play Santa Claus because I have a system that is basically a people finder and they had to come do a site visit from California to make sure that we have the safety protocols in place for this particular program. But if it was over a certain amount of money in a case, we would try to locate that person. We would make them tell us enough to make us feel comfortable that, you know, Jane Smith is the correct Jane Smith in this case. But if they did that, they would fill out forms for provide ID, and we would be able to disperse that fund. So we were making phone calls and telling people out of the blue that they had$7,000 or$12,000. So we were able to put these monies into the hands of the right people, which was a blessing. Um, and then when we couldn't make the contact, or if it was under a certain amount, we did turn that over. But you know, the money aspect of this is substantial for sure. But it is, once again, I make sure that I hire people that are comfortable dealing with finances, but that also understand the incredible responsibility of taking this in so that it can be properly dispersed. And we're subject to audit. Uh, those audits are huge because you're dealing with, usually we get audited about every four years. Four years worth of clerk's office funds is astronomical. And so um, I'm really proud of how our office does a great job of knowing the responsibility of those monies, making sure that they're dispersed out properly and that it gets taken in and received in how it needs to. And every single day we balance to the penny. If we're off, we've looked in dumpsters and trash cans, like we we are going to find that money. You know, if we're over, we give it back to where it's supposed to go. But the money part of it is is quite significant. And then the other part of it would be if that's the CFO part, then the other function would be the CEO, the executive office for the court system, in that we take in every single piece of paper filing for any court case in the 37th Judicial Circuit. Now it's important to distinguish that we're not municipal. So like Auburn City and Opalika City have their own clerk's offices for that function. But any cases that are in the district or circuit courts of the 37th Judicial Circuit come to my office. So the paper part of it is also significant. So that's that judicial circuit, that's just Lee County, or is that so some counties are in a multi-county circuit, like the Fifth Circuit, I think it's like making chambers, Randolph, Tala Trice. But we are, I don't know the history behind it, but at some point it has to do with size as well. But we were designated our own circuit. So Lee County is its own 37th judicial circuit.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, one of the other things, like with the filing part of it, it's it's everything from the beginning part when you file a complaint or when a warrant gets filed to the very, very end of a case, which is the whole appellate process. Fun fact that I didn't really know about was the clerk is also the keeper of any evidence on appeal. So it's my job to be the custodian. So I'm responsible for the care, custody, and control of all evidence on appeal, criminal, and civil. When I was a prosecutor, it never crossed my mind what happened to evidence when I got it admitted at trial. So, like one time I was doing a attempted murder and I admitted this very, very heavy screen door from um a housing project home. Jessica told me about this. Yes. And so I was like, oh, there's the door. Like, see you later, door. And then when I became the work, I was like, there's the door. I could have substituted a photograph of that. So this is where we reap, this is the consequences of my own actions playing out in real time. So we're very So now you have the store of this door. I have the door. And we have a very large evidence vault. We are so blessed in Lee County. There are courthouses that are just busting at the seams with no space. Since we got this new addition to the Justice Center, I got this massive vault. It's basically a vault inside of a vault. The first part of the vault is my records room. And then inside the records room, which is a vault, is this evidence vault that only like three people have access to. And when you when you go in there, it just smells like blood and weed. Like it's just which takes me back to my old con you know, prosecuting days. Like I love going in there because I'm like, oh, it smells like prosecution. It just smells like being in the courtroom. But it smells like crime in here. Yeah, but then my staff is like, I'm not going in there, it's bad juju in there. But so we have it, you know, very well organized. I had some APOS certified officers come in and help make sure that all the weapons, there's a lot of weapons, a lot of drugs, a lot of um money and valuables, a lot of blood evidence, um, things like that. So it is a huge having come from a criminal law background, a huge responsibility. And I do not take that lightly at all. Lee County, I have said this for a long time, is a magnet for the strange and unusual. We have a lot of high-profile cases that get national attention. So I've had a lot of um the crime shows want to come and do like their 2020 or I don't know, what are the other crime shows? 60 million. Yeah, all of them. So while we do try to accommodate them, um, you know, I don't let them touch my evidence. One of them, the case it was a case that Jessica had tried, um, a capital murder, the in his case a couple of years ago, one of the critical pieces of evidence was this cigarette butt, but it was from the early 90s. So they wanted to take the cigarette butt out of the bag. And I was like, let me tell you what you're not gonna do is take you can take a picture of that in that bag all you want. I will hold it up for you, but we are not gonna do anything that could compromise the integrity of this evidence. And so uh there are laws that allow me to destroy evidence. It's called records retention schedules. So if it's a class C or D felony and it's like a lot of weed or something, as long as I go through the legal process for that, we can get it destroyed in an incinerator or something. But um, if it's a class A or a B, I'm not gonna, even though I could get rid of it, I'm not going to.

SPEAKER_00:

I just Well, yeah. I mean, I think me and Jessica talked about this a little bit about my personal obsession and love for coal case files and that kind of thing. So, like you think you look at uh some of these coal cases that come up 30 years later, and you know, you they they bust them, but if someone in your position had destroyed the evidence because technically they could, yeah, people get away with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Or if someone had like a um the ability to get the appellate courts to order that there be a retrial, and that you know, you hear these cases that it may be 20, 30 years later, or some newly discovered evidence comes up that may indicate that there was a co-conspirator or maybe a totally different defendant altogether. Like I just would not ever, and once again, because it's a we are a magnet for the strange and unusual, I would be the one. So I'm just like, I'm not gonna keep it. We've got the room for it, it's well organized, it's well kept. So um, I'm glad that we have the ability to do that, where some circuits do not. So it's it's really cool. That's yeah, that's one of the cool things that I just did not know was a function of the clerk's office. Yeah, I didn't either. All these other, I know it's it's pretty cool. Yeah. I had a very prosecution-oriented brain because that was my job. Being in this position, because you're you're sort of you're Switzerland. You know, like I don't take, I am supposed to maintain care, custody, and control of the court file and make sure that that is accurate. That is my responsibility and the finances and the evidence. But it has just dealing with some of these people at the counter, which I'm sure we'll talk about in just a minute, you know, and and our job and how we are often the closest some of these people ever get into a courtroom. You know, we're we're the the most some will see of the court system, which is a heavy burden to make sure that they know how great our system is made up to be and that they're treated fairly no matter what side they're on. It has opened my eyes, that plus all the podcasts that I've listened to, of all the stuff that can that can go on. And so I just once again, I'm just grateful that we keep all that stuff because you just never know. You really don't. And we do have, I'll get jail mails sometimes to to scan into some of these cases from defendants that have been in jail for 40 years. Yeah, you know, and that's we get them, we get we get them too. Yeah, like you wouldn't think that you would still need that evidence, but hey, you just never know. So I'm glad we've got it. If if I could write a book, and like we said before this started, just when you think you have seen it all. Right. No, yeah. I have had uh jail letters written to me that uh are to the tune of 'twas the night before Christmas, but do not contain any language that I could impart today for the purposes of this show.

SPEAKER_00:

Like just the strangest things. So it's so there's it's so weird. Yes. So weird. Okay. So we kind of touch base a little bit about what you guys do, what you do on kind of a you know, over, you know, a generalized thing. So kind of what are the day-to-day, and this may just be too difficult to answer because you guys do so much, but what are like the day-to-day responsibilities of like the of the clerk's office? Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So basically I'm taking the the big picture, and if I'm going to put it down to what we do for the majority of a day, we create all of the court dockets. So there's about eight different courts in the 37th judicial circuit. So you've got your circuit civil, uh, domestic relations, circuit civil, domestic relations, child support, small claims, district civil. Then you've got traffic, juvenile, district criminal, circuit criminal. That's nine. And we used to have worthless check, but that's really misdemeanor courts. That would be district criminal. So all of these court dockets that are going on all the time, my office creates those. So we set the court dates, we set up the court files, um, we send out any notices whenever there's an order done, whenever there's a motion done, whenever someone files something at the counter instead of online, we process that. So any given day, they're working on thousands of court filings, one way or the other, whether it's from the judges filing orders or from someone uh like an attorney or a pro se litigant filing paperwork in a civil or criminal case. And then we're receiving in the money all day long when people come to pay on their traffic cases or restitution recovery, or they're paying a filing fee, or they're paying for a subpoena to be issued, or paying for an alias summon. So what's what's interesting is to see how my office trains because my head works chronologically. I need to know what to do at the beginning and let's work it all the way through. But you can't train someone that way because you've got to put them at the counter and teach them how to process whatever comes in at the time. It could be a complaint, which is at the beginning of a civil case, or it could be it could be a writ of execution to go get property that you've gotten from a judgment in a civil case, which is at the end of the case. You know, so like the whole the way it all ends up clicking in someone's head is kind of interesting to watch because you just can't train them from the beginning. And you just have to keep telling them, I promise at some point it's going to click. But on any given day, you're doing something to help a case get started, you're doing something to wrap a case up or collect, you know, some money on a judgment that was gotten into a case, or you are taking in a payment on a criminal case, or taking in a filing for an expungement for a criminal case. So the amount of money and the amount of documents that we deal with on any given day is once again just huge. And then we're creating dockets when these judges set a case for a certain day, whether it's a status conference or whether it's a trial, we're the ones that are making sure that all of this, this whole engine just works very well, seamlessly. It's well oiled and everything's getting done like it needs to be. How many, how many employees do you have? How many people are doing this? Right now, I have 21, and I think one of them is part-time, maybe, I think maybe two. Um, staffing is hard, especially right now. You could go and make way more money at Target or any type of retail on an hourly basis, if you want to do that comparison. What I try to tell people when they're interested is that while the hourly rate is low, and it is like we they're the lowest paid employees in the court system, it is really, really hard because they deserve so much more. But it is wonderful in that you have um good health insurance, it's state health insurance, state retirement. And once you get in, the pay scale does go up. I think one of the most frustrating things about trying to be a good administrator is when you're working in the private sector, you can do bonuses or you can do, you know, like there's there's different ways that you can incentivize your staff and make sure that everything's going the way it needs to. The the government, it's it's a step system. Like I don't have any leeway. I can't give bonuses. I can't give raises unless they meet the criteria, which is like that's normally a calendar thing. I can't just decide six months later to give someone a raise. So it's been really hard. So that's why I know the biggest part of my job is to be a healthy leader so that they will feel valued in other ways because it's not reflected in their paycheck. So I just have to be very conscientious of hiring the right people that have a heart for service and then making sure that they know how appreciated that they are and that I give them the tools that they need, whether it's equipment, whether it's I need two people working on this court because it's too large for one person. It's my job to run a very good ship. Yeah. And I will say, like most of my staff, and I don't know if if this would be something you could find data on, but like maybe it's predominantly women, they need to feel connected to what they do. And so a lot of times they are willing to take less pay if they are more fulfilled.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Well, I think, and I think that's also um from the studies, things that I've done, and just I think that's also a generational thing. It's like you have to have a sense, more people will have a sense of purpose, like will work somewhere for lesser pay if they feel that sense of purpose in what they're doing. And they have that, you know, that team.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And while I cannot make everyone and their best friends, it is a wonderful family. It's it's like any other family. There's some dysfunction, you know, there's you cannot have so many people in one area that have different personality type types. I get all my staff to take a personality test because it's wonderful to know who my introverts are, who my extrovert are. I can be a better leader if they know me and I know them, how we communicate with each other, where our gifts and talents are, where we are best focused with our strengths. So I work really hard. When I first became the clerk, I thought I needed to know how to do everything. And I quickly learned that I could not. And as a wonderful friend of mine, I think it was Jessica, that was like, you know, Mary, hospital administrator doesn't have to perform surgery. It is your job to be a healthy leader. And so many times you hear people talk about having bad supervisors or an unhealthy leadership. And so I had this philosophy that like nothing is healthy under the top. Like if the top isn't healthy, nothing that flows from it is going to be healthy. And so it's my job to make sure that I know how to be a good leader. And when I took over and was appointed to this position, I was so young. I'd never had to dealt with, I've never dealt with staff, never dealt with budgets. So immediately I started training on leadership, how to be an effective and positive leader so that if I did have to deal with a discipline issue or something, it they knew that it came from a place of me loving and caring for this office and for them. And it's it's been wonderful. I have the best staff of anyone else, hands down. I mean, I would go head to head with anyone that thought otherwise because these people truly care about what they're doing. They feel connected to something greater than themselves. They they are have a heart for service that when I am screening people for employment. Like, if you ever been to one of those offices, it's the state office, and it's like you're almost putting them out to ask them to do their job. You know, like, oh yeah, I make a very concerted effort to hire people that have a heart for community service because there is no place for anything else other than everybody's gonna have a bad day, but for the most part, they know at that counter that whoever is standing before them has a need. It's whether it doesn't matter if you're the victim in the case or a defendant in the case. It doesn't matter if you are evicting someone or if you're being evicted. They're there for a purpose, they have a need. Everyone needs to be seen and valued and be and respected and treated as a human being. And so I work really hard to have a staff that does that. And so, in that effort, I end up getting people that love being a part of this. And we can't make everybody happy. I think that my office probably gets cussed out and threatened more than anybody else, but that is because we they see us more than they do the justice. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

You guys are, you know, you're the face. Yeah, you're absolutely the face. And and you know, and you guys don't. So people like, you know, usually like we do the same here when people call us or they're coming in, it's not their best day. That's exactly they are at their lowest exact point and very frustrated.

SPEAKER_01:

And it can be frustrating. It the wheels of justice do not move fast. Yeah. And we are limited in the information we can provide, like we cannot practice law and we cannot get anywhere close to that. So, like people want help filling out forms and stuff, and there's just only so much that we can do. And I know that's frustrating that we can't help them more, uh, but we're also, you know, very respectful of our role. And as much as we would like to help, if if it goes beyond the scope of our office duties, then we just have to try to be as kind as we can and and know that, you know, again, no one's gonna be there unless they have a need. Because you don't just go hang out at the clerk's office. Like you're there because you have some connection to some sort of a case in some way. The happy people we see are passports. Like those are the people that are smiling and they're happy, but even then they get frustrated sometimes. So that's just part of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and that leads right into my next question. So, do you guys do passports as well? That's so random, I feel.

SPEAKER_01:

It is random, and it is not a necessary required function of a clerk's office. So 95% of what my office does is by state law. But this this passport thing, at some point, the federal government, long, long time ago, designated certain agencies to be able to process passports. Those are probate judges' office, clerk's offices, libraries, post offices. Um, I may be leaving one out, but I'm I'm pretty sure that pretty much hits it. So a lot of counties where the clerk does not handle passports, their probate judges will, and libraries and post offices, but they do require appointments. Hights does not require appointments unless you do not speak any English at all. And then I try to provide an interpreter. Um, so it's not something that you have to do. But a lot of clerks' offices that otherwise would, if their probate judge started it a long time ago, they just don't get into that. It is a lot of extra work for my office, but uh I've made it very clear that you know our first function is to run this court system. This is an extra need that we are meeting for the community. And because we have a lot of military here and in surrounding areas, and then we have a large student population, it's a high-volume passport center. It got so busy that we had to stop doing them on Mondays and we have a cutoff at like four. So um, you know, we try to keep it in perspective because we know what our primary duties are, but the community relies on our office and we we don't require appointments. Um, and I have some very well-trained passport acceptance agents that do such a great job and go above and beyond. We recently got this passport photo booth. It's really cool because it should not generate a photo that is not compliant with the U.S. Department of State. But it's a time saver because most people have to go to Walgreens or CVS or camera graphics, which is fine, but it's wonderful for them to have one less stop. And then, you know, we try to find any problems on the front end. So if someone comes in and their picture's too gray or something, they kind of get angry with us and we're like, hey, we can take it, but if we send it off, it's just gonna delay the processing. So we're trying to help save the time so you can get your passport back. Um, there's just a lot of little details that the Fed they're serious about those passports because that's how they kept terrorists. And actually, we were recognized, I think it was a little maybe close to a decade, um, because we have to kind of flag uh application if there's kind of something that may be suspicious about it. And so uh apparently we did find someone that was trying to get a fake passport for whatever nefarious reasons, but my people do a great job. And while my office is the the state functions are subject to state office, state audit, sorry, the passport part is subject to federal audit. So everything that we do in that office has great and needed oversight. Uh, so that is even the best reason to make sure that I'm running it the way that it is designed and the way that it should be ran.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, very cool. Well, I had an excellent experience when I went and got my passport forever ago. I need to renew it again. I'm so glad. And it's really cool that you guys have like a photo so you can just we just got it. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

It's just this little photo booth in the lobby, but I've had so many people express their gratitude to have, you know, one less stop to have to do that because you basically have to get strip searched to go to the justice center, which is also an imposition, but necessary. Absolutely. We have people try to bring in the worst weapons and they're hidden. I mean, a lot of them are hidden in the bills of their caps and things like that. You should see the logs that the court security members make when they confiscate these weapons and stuff. So, like it is necessary to keep everyone safe inside that building. And they're so nice. Yes, they are. They're so nice. They get a lot of bad, I mean, they deal with a lot. They really, really do. That office, court security in my office deals with a lot. Um, but people come in and they're upset because they basically have to take their belts off and everything else. So having a photo booth in there is has really helped um us connect more with the needs and meet the needs of the community. One thing the clerk's offices do across the state that I do not is absentee elections. I did that for a while. And then there was this federal lawsuit where I got just the luck of the draw. They picked a defendant, a clerk as a defendant in the northern district, middle district, and southern district, Bible. So I get the luck of the draw to get the middle district. And all of that was just too much because our absentee office was separate from the clerk's office. And for elections in Lee County, especially like a presidential or a big governatorial, it's a full-time job too. And I thought, you know, I really cannot be the best clerk by being pulled in all these different directions. So we have another great absentee election manager in my office. Other than me serving on the poll appointing board and the canvassing board, which legally I have to do with the sheriff or probate judge, I do not do any election absentee stuff anymore. But that was another little known doing with the clerk's office. I'm glad you don't have to do that anymore because I'm sure that is a nightmare. But we do keep the passports. But yeah, that is it's a weird thrown-in extra thing if you wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I feel like that's maybe like at least you have like some people coming in that are cheerful.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah. And I will say some of these people, even with their filings, are very grateful and very, very kind. But the ones that aren't, like you said, they are going through a tough time one way or another. These passport people, they're they're happy.

SPEAKER_00:

They're happy too. Absolutely. Okay, so let's walk people through the court system. Okay. So what actually happens when someone's case enters the court system?

SPEAKER_01:

So there are different, there's a different trajectory for a criminal case versus a civil case. If it's a civil case, these things start by filing what's called a complaint. And that person would come in, bring their complaint, or it would be e-filed, which we can talk about in a second. And they have one or two or more defendants. And a defendant can be a human being, a defendant can be a corporation, all sorts of different options for your parties. And so we would set that case up and then we would issue it for service. When it gets served on the defendants, they have so many times, so much time to file an answer. That time varies as to whether or not it's a small claims matter, district civil or circuit civil. And then it just, it just takes its own little course where the defendant files an answer and then the judge will set it for status conferences or and then they'll do discovery, all that stuff that's kind of outside of the justice center. And then it'll ultimately either be uh there'll be an agreement reached and they will not have to go through a trial, or they will ask the court and they'll go through a trial. It could be a jury trial, it could be a bench trial where it's just the judge hearing it and making a decision. So I have in about maybe 45 seconds given you what could take 10 years for a court case to go to resolution, but from the, you know, very basic nuts and bolts, that's a civil case. The criminal case can start with either an arrest with a warrant or without a warrant, and then it goes through a preliminary hearing phase and the district court process. And then if it's a felony or a misdemeanor accompanying a felony, it would get indicted by a grand jury and then it would become a circuit criminal case. And that's when you go through all the way to the end of a trial, which could also be a bench trial or a jury trial. Um, and then there could be a direct present case, which means there's not an arrest at the district court level, but they do a direct present to the grand jury. And so it just starts out as a circuit criminal case and goes through the same steps there, where it ultimately would be a trial or a plea.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's talk about jury. How this is um, you know, a topic of contention for a lot of people. So let's talk about jury. How now you we had a I just want to give a shout out to uh her office and the lady who handles this stuff for you because she did an excellent presentation at one of our Kowanas meetings. And so now I feel very well versed in jury selection. But fill us for our listeners, fill us in on how jury jury duty happens, like how you're selected, like what all right, and maybe some misconceptions. Sure.

SPEAKER_01:

So fun fact about the 37th Judicial Circuit, we have a court administrator, and most counties in Alabama do not. And when there is no court administrator, most of these functions are the responsibility of the circuit clerk. But since we have one, our court administrator, who is now Vicki Hudson, she's fabulous. Our court administrator before her, Trish Campbell, was wonderful and she was with us for many, many years. But they're the ones that are primarily tasked with summoning the jurors. I am still a part of that process and still legally responsible for it. So we we work very closely together. If you're summoned as a juror, it's because your name, your driver's license was picked up. So we we find y'all by your driver's license, which does mean because our county is full of students, um, a lot of people that are coming in and coming out. And I don't know that if I move, the first thing I would do would be change my driver's license. So a lot of times they'll just wait till it expires and then get it renewed in the place that they've moved to. So a lot of the times when we get these, we'll have to summon probably five or six hundred people just to maybe get 120. Um, because a lot of people don't really respond or they no longer live here. Um, and in Alabama, there's no like other than a medical excuse, you don't get excused from service by age. We'll have people call because they think they're too old or something like that. And I just have to say, I'm so sorry. I I'm so sorry, but you still have to come. Like you would get postponed, but you don't really get excused unless you have a medical reason. Um, recently some legislation passed about nursing mothers that allowed an excuse for nursing mothers, but it's not an excuse across the board. It's still a postponement, but they would be postponed to a later time when they were no longer having to deal with the stress of nursing and having to do jury service. Um you know, it it's it's funny because we get a lot of people that are very angry about being summoned and made to come to jury duty. But if you if you care about the way the system is set up in this country, then you would have a great respect and value for the right to a jury by your peers. And so when I was a prosecutor, I was always wary of the people that were like, hey, pick me, pick me. Because you know, you're like, why are you so excited about serving on a jury? But then you also don't want the angry person that is so mad that they're there that they might not pay attention to this case, which is, you know, the end-all be-all for the parties involved. So um, most of your jury, most everyone is very understanding. They call it duty for a reason because it's not easy. It is a duty. And so a lot of people, if you're a sole business owner or if you are a contract worker or something, you're losing income by being there and by your doing your civic duty. But everyone usually just is easy to work with and kind, and they normally leave there having a much better understanding of how the system works and an appreciation for it. So at the end of it, they're usually glad that they were able to play a role in it. But it is certainly not easy and it is an imposition, especially when you have like a two-week term, like a capital murder, and that's two weeks, and you can't have your cell phone in there. Like it is not an easy thing to ask people to do, but it is so appreciated. The that is the one of the most important parts of our justice system, criminal or civil, more important than the judges. Like, is is that part of being able to serve as a jury so that our justice system can run the way that it was intended to run?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Yeah, I've heard that those uh, you know, if you've never served on a jury duty, like on a jury, that don't just like kick, you know, fight it to try to actually do it. And then um because I heard that you'll have just an entire new appreciation for the entire system, how it works, and that you'll be at the end, you'll be glad that you actually actually did it.

SPEAKER_01:

Most people do say that. I think what's frustrating is that like we should, and I think that when we go into this next uh computer system that we're looking at, which could be years down the road, but they're they should pull from your voter registrations because I think those are usually more accurate, especially now, you know, people are more interested in their in exercising their voting rights. That the voter turnout is still disappointing, but it's getting better, and it does kind of depend on what's on the ballot. But I do think people update their voter registration. So I'm hoping at some point we can pull from driver's licenses and voter registrations because I've had people that have been summoned three and four times, and then some that have never been summoned at all. Like they've gone their whole lives and have never been summoned for jury duty.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, I've been it's you know, I've been summoned one time. And what year was that?

unknown:

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00:

It was a long time ago. I was working here. Um definitely tried to get out of it. It did I ended up um not getting chosen. I knew everyone. Oh yeah. I knew the uh defendants, the president. I actually ended up going in the defendant I knew from school. Oh, okay. And they were like, Does anyone know? And I was just like, I literally know everyone in this club.

SPEAKER_01:

Either, either the was it criminal or civil? It was criminal. So either the state or the defense like immediately marked your name.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. She's off. Yeah. Uh it was funny. Keisha was actually the uh the prosecutor on that case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

She was there when I was, she was my chief deputy when I was chief assistant district attorney when I was prosecuting.

SPEAKER_00:

So we love Keisha.

SPEAKER_01:

She was, she is a fabulous.

SPEAKER_00:

She really is. She's fantastic. How do you guys support? And we kind of talked about this a little bit about you got like, you know, your staff understanding that, you know, people coming in may not be are probably not there on their best day, except for those getting their passport. How do you guys support victims and like the defendants and attorneys and judges? Like, do you guys, well, let's just start with the victims. Like, do you guys have like, or is that just something the DA's office handles? Like, do y'all have your own little thing that you guys do? Or is that just like a no?

SPEAKER_01:

So we are sort of Switzerland. Um, we we cannot get too involved in a case. Um, we have to know our role. So when it comes to victim services and things like that, we can't get involved a lot. We do have like flyers and stuff for domestic violence programs and things like that. Um, but as far as us being able to counsel victims and things like that, we're not really able to do that. Um, I would hate for anything that my office did to affect or in any way um cross the line and have a role that we're not supposed to have in the process of a case, criminal or civil. But it does still go back to my deep respect for this job that I don't deserve and am so blessed to have because I do think that in some way we make an impact on these people and how we treat them at the counter. Um, so a long time ago I made it, I made it an effort to treat everyone the same. Basically, just making sure that everyone is treated with respect and that we can help them as much as we can for what they need. Uh, I think that that does make an impact on someone. They just like once again, they just feel seen. Uh, they get frustrated when we when we can't help them as much as they would like. Um, there have been some very belligerent uh attorneys and reporters that think that they should have more privileges than the pro se litigant that doesn't have an attorney and can't afford one and they're trying to file. So I have tried to make sure that I'm not gonna do for one something that I do not do for another. And that has, that has been a blessing too, because you know, as much as I would like to accommodate a reporter, I know they have a story to get out and I know that they need this information and they want to get it out before someone else. If I'm not gonna make an extra trip for a defendant or a mother of uh a deceased murder victim that wants a copy of this document, I'm not gonna go do that for someone else because of their name or because of their status or something like that. So I think that that has really helped me lead by example because my staff knows that we are everyone is just as important as the person next to them. And so we have to maintain our integrity with this case, especially like for private information when juvenile people come in for juvenile filings, things like that. But then also us just making sure that we don't prioritize one person over another. So where we don't get to have hands-on with parties in a case, and I'm really kind of glad because it, you know, you don't need our position on the matter. We don't want to impact or have any sway over a case at all. And I don't want my staff to ever presume that someone is guilty or automatically think something about this eviction case or something. You know, we just need to stay to our to our designated roles, but at the same time have a heart for people altogether. So, in in a weird way, I didn't answer your question, but I feel like that's a way we can offer support without having an opinion on the matter.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Well, I mean, like I, you know, you're right. You definitely don't want to be in a situation where you could sway the outcome either way in a in a case and you know, having, you know, no one getting preferential treatment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I don't want someone coming in going, well, I got this, um, I got this pending case and the other side didn't do something. If my office stepped outside of its box and said, Well, you need to file a motion for contempt, you know, like that's basically practicing law or at a minimum picking sides. And we're not supposed to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

And so it's actually uh, you know, unauthorized practice of law UPL committee with state water, which Trip is actually, I think, committee chair of that.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm very big on teaching them where that line is. A lot of it is a gray area, and I'm like, hey, if you're not sure, just don't do it. Like I just don't want any of us to cross that line. But even if it's not a legal practice issue, if it's just a, you know, I think that they're I would like for somebody's bond to be revoked. You know, like we can't really tell them how to do that. But it's just kind of hard. Like they really do come thinking that we'll we can help with everything and we have to be very careful, and that's frustrating. But on the other side, you really don't want us getting involved on one side or the other.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Absolutely. Well, and you don't want someone coming in and saying, like, oh, well, they told me to fill out this form like this. And it'd be the wrong one. And then it's the wrong one, and then the whole case gets thrown out because of a technicality.

SPEAKER_01:

Or an appeal deadline, right? You know, there's just a lot of technicalities there that we just have to make sure we always advise people to get an attorney. I mean, this this area of life is it's got its own vernacular, it's got its own um mechanisms and engine. Like, I just it's not impossible to represent yourself, but it is very hard. So at the end of the day, we always just recommend that that people try to reach out to an attorney about any case. Um, but you know, some people just aren't able to do that. And so I'm glad that our court system is made up to where you can represent yourself. Small claims mostly are pro se litigants and things like that. But it is really hard when you're trying to help a pro se litigant and take their filing, and you really can't. You can take their filing and help them, but you you really can't help them when it comes to the meat of what they're filing. So it's it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

I heard a uh, and granted, this isn't for like small claims and that kind of thing, but what is the saying where they're like uh the person who represents themselves?

SPEAKER_01:

So where's the lawyer that represents himself? They have a fool for a client.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's exactly what you've been in this role for quite some time. Um, do you feel like, and this may not be, do you feel like it's the office is easier to deal with today than it was 10 years ago? And I think maybe like a, and I'm sure it's just different because of the, you know, enormous amount of growth our area has had. But then you've also got like all the new technologies and that kind of stuff. Has that made it a simpler process, or is it now just pretty much the same because we've had so much growth?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, yeah, it evens itself out. Like it's it's kind of difficult in that to answer that question because like where the e-filing system has made it easier for how the paperwork comes in, we still have to process it. Whether it comes in written on a gum wrapper or whether it comes in as a piece of paper over the counter or e-filing, it is a little bit more streamlined with e-filing, but we still, I think part of the problems with misunderstandings in my office is that they think that the e-filing makes it immediate. Like we still have to process every single thing that comes in. It's just the delivery mechanism as to how it can come in through the mail or the through e-file or over the counter.

SPEAKER_00:

So if we e-file something at um 459, well, it depends like and then and then we're like, how come you guys have got a little bit?

SPEAKER_01:

If it's a motion, yes. So that is hilarious and so accurate. If it's emotion, it gets docketed to the judge. Um, but whether the judge is gonna see it, I don't know. So in that respect, motions and filings is better because of e-file. We can immediately just press docket and it goes to the judge, as opposed to having to hand stamp it, put it in the judge's basket, and then wait for the judge's JA to get it or for us to take it down there. Um, so for that, technology has made it more of an immediate, all right, it's already in the court file, no scanning, it's there. But as far as it, if it's a garnishment or if it is a uh expungement or anything like we have to set it up, enter in all that data and everything, regardless of how it comes in. While so many things can be e-filed, there are certain documents that just have to be hand-filed, like private documents, scanning a private document into a case and stuff. And attorneys, I don't want to say lazy, they don't get lazy, they get very accustomed to it, the e-filing thing. And so they'll try to e-file something, they'll put a square peg and a round hole. And yes, you can scan that in as a you know, case status report, but it's not going to go anywhere because it's supposed to be hand filed and we don't know it's there because you didn't file it right. So a lot of my time is spent clearing up what can be e-filed versus what needs to be hand filed and making sure that it goes into the court file the right way. So, you know, that technology has been wonderful and revolutionizing for the court system, but it also comes with its own struggles and frustrations. Um, we've seen a huge increase in pro se alift access for e-filing. So they're getting on board and starting to e-file stuff too, which is also interesting and helpful. Um, and then the jury scams are becoming a problem. You heard about all the scams where people are called.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes, and they're like, oh, you didn't show up for duty jury duty. No, you owe us a warranty.

SPEAKER_01:

So you're gonna pay your way out of it with a crypto getting much more sophisticated. The red flag would be any no law enforcement agency is gonna ask you to pay your way out of jury duty or even a traffic ticket, whatever they say, by going and getting a gift card. Yeah, ever. That's not how that works, but they are sophisticated in that they are targeting people that they find on the internet, like they'll call a doctor's office and they'll call all the doctors and all the nurses in the doctor's office that they found off the website. They will also go online and find out when our court dates are. So they're giving them a legitimate court date. They know the judges, and they also are posing as legitimate law enforcement officers. So then they say they're Captain Taylor, we actually have a Captain Taylor. Right. So they are getting more sophisticated in that. And when you call the number back, you're gonna get a live person that will say that it's Captain Taylor. So a lot of people have fallen prey to this. And I mean, it is the saddest thing when we will hear about someone that has given three, four thousand dollars because they were afraid they were gonna get arrested. So that is becoming more and more problematic in my office with those numbers of phone calls, not just for jury duty now. They'll say that it's because you didn't, you were supposed to subpoenaed as a witness in a case and you didn't show up to testify. Like they're moving and turning all the time on how they're doing these scams, but they are not letting up on it at all.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And they'll also, I saw that, you know, they'll spoof numbers. I mean, and the crazy thing is like, even as a law firm, we get them sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm like, did you I mean it'll come up as the Lee County Central Clerk's office. Right. I mean, I don't know. I do not know how to other than just try to make the community aware of it. And you know, we're not gonna put a warrant out for you as a juror. You know what I mean? Like we we don't do that. So other than just community awareness, it is a huge problem. It comes up probably once a month in large numbers. And then I think one of them even got frustrated that this doctor wasn't willing to pay them and threatened to kill them and their family. Oh wow. Oh, yeah, they took it really. She was absolutely terrified.

SPEAKER_00:

That's insane. Oh, my toxic, my I have a toxic trait. I would have anyway.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah. Mine, mine would have been like, they don't come at me. Yeah, I think I just had this look on my face. Yeah. I don't think scammers, it's a tone of voice, it's a look on my face in the Walmart parking lot. Like, I just have not been messed with. Knock on wood. I mean, yeah. So there are local connections here that are feeding this information to fault. But it is all they're connected and it is a global system of the scammers that do this, and they're getting billions of dollars. Oh, absolutely. It is a an enormous very sophisticated and a lot of money, probably still third world countries, but nonetheless, they're making a ton of money off of this.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, they're all, and it's just, you know, developing countries for sure. But like you said, there's people here in Lee County that are part that are all involved in this and a part of this.

SPEAKER_01:

I've had my checks kited where they'll they'll take my checks and use my routing number and my checking account number and put it on like Jimmy's construction checks or something like that. And but it's and they might not be connected to your jury scammers, but it's a large ring. Absolutely. And we've had a lot of um, this was even when I was a prosecutor, like homeless people from Atlanta, because people will pick up the homeless, drive them down the interstate, which were on that corridor, and take them to a bank and ask them to go cash checks. And you know what I know, like for every one time they get caught, there's 20 that they did not. And then the homeless people are the ones that get caught, they get put in jail. The people that were behind it, they just live in there.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah, I mean, washing checks is uh is definitely big, big business for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

We had a guy that's committed suicide in Colorado, and his family he had a disease and he was kind of homebound, and he thought he had was looking for love on the internet, and these ladies on the internet would ask him to cash checks, and so he would do it, and there was a$50,000 check that they had basically washed with my information on it, and he we caught it because we had to move to positive pay because it was happening so much on our accounts. You could start a new account, it's still gonna happen. So, like we we we're not gonna shut down our accounts, but we do have to do positive pay now. So we stopped it, but then they started threatening. We know you cash that check, we're coming after our money, blah, blah, blah. So they just put so much pressure on him that I guess he committed suicide. So his family members called one day and was like, is this a legitimate check? And that's how we got connected and realized that he was a true victim of this scamming stuff. Gosh, that's just not it's horrible. All sorts of things. I wish people would just get a job. If they would use their brains for good and not evil, unbelievable. This is a smart organization groups of people, like they're brilliant.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, they could they could really be doing some good stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

But I will say, as far as my office is concerned, that's just an extra thing. We're happy to help play a part in clearing up confusion, but it's almost like they're one step ahead of us. Like it's it's hard enough to do all these other things that we're responsible for, but then there's always those other issues that we need to be a part of helping with this community when people call us because it's jury duty or it's a court date or something like that. But in our modern world, there's just there's always going to be these morphs of things like this that just add to um the difficulties and it creates mistrust and you know, all the things that we just don't need added on to what we do every day.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it just I think the best way around this at any time is that if anyone ever calls you and asks for money, yeah, just hang up.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I would much rather a citizen call me and my office to verify, hey, is this a scam? Right, than even consider spending time with them on the phone or going and getting a wire transfer or a debit card or a check card or gift card. Yeah. Just call. I I would much rather you call my office, shoot me an email. I will tell you, you know, you're not gonna get arrested. You know, like, but do that before you entertain this because they're getting pretty crafty. They are very, very good at what they do.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and they're very good at um, you know, psychologically scaring, scaring a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I think the main thing that I would love people to know is that I am given this position that I never thought that I would have. And it is a huge blessing. And even though I joke about how it'll put me in an early grave, and it will, like my hair has fallen out different times. And I've, you know, I don't get to see there's times I don't get to see my kids a lot, um, but I'm called to it. Like that's the difference between a job and a calling. And in that effort, I try to make sure that I hire people that are also called to it. I want to know when that's not working. I want to know when there's a problem because it's not just a problem for the people that are having to deal with this person, but it's a problem for my office because there are other people in my office that are having to deal with it. So I'm hoping that I'm hiring the right people. I'm hoping that people are proud of their clerk's office and their court system and that they know how much we respect all of all of those that have to deal with us in some way, whether it is a civil issue or a criminal issue or jury duty or anything like that. So, you know, we're very fortunate that all of our judges and sheriff and the clerk get along. There are some counties where they they do not communicate. And we might not always agree. I mean, we're a bunch of lawyers, you're gonna disagree, but we highly respect each other and work together, and that does nothing but greatly benefit our community. And Lee County is a benchmark. I don't know if you've been able, I'm sure you have in your in your practice. Like we set the bar for a lot of this state. And when they need programs to be piloted for Ala Cordura, they call me and and a few other counties to pilot, and they will call us. I'll have clerks all I'm the president of the circuit clerks association this year. So clerks all over the state will call, how do you do this? They want to know our process because we're doing it right. That doesn't mean sometimes we don't have to adjust or we need to learn new things. I'm learning something new every day, and I would never want a job where I'm not. But we're we're like a unicorn.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, we really are. Well, we're so, I mean, we're so lucky to to and bless to be able to live in the area that we do live in and to have, you know, our civic leaders like you and um, you know, others and everybody at the Justice Center and then in our different municipalities to be able to keep us going in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01:

And we still recognize the value of communication and relationships. We still do have that small town. And I'm so glad we haven't lost that, even with our growth. So that I think makes us unique. Um, but also just that, you know, we know the value of everyone working together.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, guys. Well, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. Uh again, Mary, thank you. And as always, no representation is made that the quality of legal services to be performed is greater than the quality of legal services to be performed by another lawyer. Have you memorized that lawyer? Thank you. Have a good Wednesday one.

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Trip Walton

Host
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Elizabeth (Betty) Burns

Co-host
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Kevin R Dunn

Co-host